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[andy brine] hello and welcome to sustainabilityin the modern world. i’m andy brine and this episode, or this series of sustainabilityin the modern world is brought to you by aworld4changetv. today we are going to be talking about windenergy, and we’ve got missouri wind and solar here this week talking about wind energyand i’m really excited to have them here today.before we get started though, i would say, if you do have any questions throughout theshow, make sure you use the # which you can see at the top there, #scmwlive. as i said,the show today is all about wind energy and we’re talking about sustainable energy throughoutthe whole month, so last week we spoke about solar energy, this week we’re gonna be speakingabout wind energy and next week we’re gonna

look at hydro energy, so really looking forwardto having this discussion today. before we get started though, i’m gonnatell you briefly why we’ve put this show together, so we can show our passion for theshow, so that you can connect with our passion and why we’re putting the show together.we personally believe that the world around us is destroyed each and every day by thechoices and decisions we make and it’s up to each one of us to define our choices anddefine our decisions so that we can live in a sustainable environment and create a sustainablemodern world. whether we live in the middle of the country or in the middle of the city.so with that, i would like to welcome wayne meador, my cohost for this series and theshow, to tell us a bit more about the show

and what we have in store for you for today.thanks wayne. [wayne meador] yeah, thank you andy. so today,i’ve known jeff at missouri wind and solar now for a while, and earlier this year i wasable to get a wind turbine from jeff and i still haven’t erected it yet because wejust now recently moved to a three acre plot out in the country where we have the spacefor it. i’m working with jared stanley at permasapien.com, he’s a friend of mine andwe’re designing our whole property with the permaculture mindset. in that design we’regonna be putting up a wind turbine. so with that being said, we’ve found that there’sa lot of questions around solar energy and wind and today we’re gonna be talking aboutwind energy. jeff is an expert, he might argue

with me on that, but would be an expert ondiy wind and solar, and really found that his information is valuable.so today we’re talking with jeff. thank you for being here jeff.[jeff harmon] hi wayne, andy, i don’t know if i’m an expert or not.[wayne meador] well, you know, i guess, even if you don’t want to consider yourself anexpert, you do have a lot of knowledge in the area of wind energy and you started yourbusiness with wind energy. i’d like to hear a little bit about how that came about andthen, after we get into that, let’s dive into the topic of wind energy and where we’regoing with it today and how do we get started and all of that. i’m curious to know howyou guys got started and why wind energy in

the first place?[jeff harmon] well, you remember back when the housing market crashed?[wayne meador] yeah [jeff harmon] well, i decided, i was thinkingto myself man it looks like the whole us is just gonna crash, so i said one thing i wantis free electricity, i want a way to create electricity. so i didn’t know anything aboutwind or solar. i went to ebay, i bought a wind turbine, i got it back here to the store,which at the time i didn’t have anything to do with wind or solar, and i put it up,and it was basically a modified delco car alternator, and had some aluminum blades onit and it was a piece of junk. it didn’t really do anything. so i went out and i boughtanother one, and i got another wind turbine

back here to the store and i put it up andi realized this one’s a piece of junk and it doesn’t do anything.[wayne meador] i don’t mean to stop you here, but this is the reason why we’re havingthis show, is because people don’t know what to get and there’s a lot of phonieson the market today and maybe we can shed some light on that. i’m sorry to interrupt,but go ahead jeff. [jeff harmon] naw, that’s pretty easy, soi just kept buying wind turbines off of ebay and every time i got them i said these thingsdon’t do what they say they do and most of them didn’t work at all. most of themwere actually dangerous. the blades exploded out of them, went flying all the way acrossthe property. i bought another one off of

ebay that had aluminum blades and those bladesbent back, went right around the pole, sheared off, and i said this is the crap that’sout there on the market. so i said i think i want to build a wind turbine myself. tohell with this. i was out hundreds of dollars. now the first thing that happened was, i wasbuying from people that you couldn’t see and you couldn’t talk to. all you coulddo was email these companies, but you couldn’t see them. they didn’t have a store and youcouldn’t talk to them, and there was a reason for that. so you couldn’t find them andwhoop their ass for selling that dangerous trash on ebay, and that’s what i figuredout after months and months of buying and i spent thousands of dollars on trash, andi mean it was absolute trash. they weren’t

just bad designs, they were trash, and junkand dangerous. so i said to hell with this, i’m gonna build my own damn wind turbines,so i just started putting together parts, put a wind turbine on the roof and it waskinda working and then i found a distributor. i started buying their parts and putting togethera wind turbine and it started working. basically people were coming up to the store sayingthat’s a cool wind turbine on your roof, can i buy it? and i said sure, so i took itoff the roof, sold it to him, and i had to build another one and put it back up there,and i kept doing that, and i said, you know what, i email people all the time and i tryto talk to them. i want to know how wind works and how solar works and all i got was bs answersor answers that were so high tech i had no

clue what these people were talking about,and i just wanted to do it myself. so somebody said i need to buy a video camera and showpeople, just explain how this stuff works. so i did.[wayne meador] so you’ve been selling the alternator wind turbine now for a while andare you currently selling that or are you producing all your own proprietary turbinesnow? [jeff harmon] no, my wife and i, we startedthe business out of our living room after i started building wind turbines. we stoppedusing that delco and now i make the kind of money to where i manufacture my own wind turbinemotor. [wayne meador] okay[jeff harmon] it has nothing to do with a

delco. this is my wind turbine motor overhere. this is one of them that we manufacture now. well, i don’t manufacture it, i haveit manufactured. [wayne meador] okay[jeff harmon] and this is solely for wind use. it has nothing to do with an electricalmotor. it’s just designed for a wind turbine. [wayne meador] if i go to ebay or amazon orstart looking on alibaba or some websites where i might be looking to find a wind turbine,how do i know it’s a good quality product? first off, maybe they have a brick and mortarstore, like you guys, and then secondly, i mean, where do we draw the line? i know there’schinese made products, but there’s also some good ones too right?[jeff harmon] well, i’ll tell you wayne,

i’ve bought hundreds of wind turbines andtested hundreds of wind turbines, and i can tell you about 99% of the chinese wind turbinesare absolute junk. now do you know what harbor freight is? have you guys ever heard of harborfreight? walk in to the harbor freight and you pick up a grinder for $15 and they giveyou a bunch of extra brushes with it? [wayne meador] yup.[jeff harmon] you’re looking at typical chinese manufacturing, and that’s what theirwind turbines are too. they're really no different. there is one good chinese manufacturer thatputs out a real wind turbine, and they're more expensive than the rest of the chinesemanufacturers, and those guys are going in the toilet. everybody is looking for dirtcheap, and the cheaper it is, the more it

sells. so the cheapest chinese wind turbineon the market is the one that’s making a killing right now, and those things, if theylast you for a year, you’ll be lucky to get a year out of them.[wayne meador] so what do you engineer a wind turbine to last if you’re building it fromthe ground up? [jeff harmon] well, so far, we have no ideahow long this motor will last, but i don’t see why it wouldn’t last 25 years.[wayne meador] okay. [jeff harmon] anyway, i mean there is reallyno failure with it, but the entire wind turbine that i make right now is completely galvanized.so, the galvanizing has a 50 year guarantee on it, so we decided not to paint it. youknow what the old aermotor water windmills

are?[wayne meador] no. [jeff harmon] you know, the water windmills,you’ll see the amish have them, you’ll see them on a lot of farms and such and theyjust pump water. most of those are aermotors and they’ve been around since like, i think1935 and they never changed the design, ever. they got something that worked, they neverchanged it, and they're all still working today, and they're in santa rosa, texas andthey still make exactly the same water windmill that they made in like 1935.[wayne meador] no kidding, see i didn’t know that. that’s interesting. and thatbrings up another question, i had recently run across a company overseas somewhere, idon’t remember where they're located, but

they're producing a commercial sized windturbine that actually extracts water from the air and provides clean water and theyhave a goal of distributing those into third world countries to provide clean water. ithought that that was quite interesting. back to the topic of wind power, if i’m a homeowner and i’m ready to get started, how do i decide what to do? do i pick up the phoneand call you and say here’s where i live, what’s better for me? wind or solar? wheredo i start? [jeff harmon] yeah, basically. back to theaermotor water windmills, pretty much what i’m designing my wind turbine after; i wantthem to last as long as the aermotors. that’s why i went with all the galvanizing. they'renot fancy or anything and that’s what i

want. i don’t want anything that looks good,i just want something that lasts forever like the aermotor. that’s what i’m trying togo after. that’s very difficult. yeah you can just call and talk to somebodyhere and tell them where you live and they can tell you what kind of wind turbine youneed. say if you live in town and you’re completely surrounded by trees, don’t evenbother. i mean you shouldn’t bother. you can and they will work to a point. if theyreally want one, it will work to a point, but you’re not gonna get a lot out of it.you should go with solar instead if you live in the city limits.[wayne meador] okay. [jeff harmon] okay, say you live out in thedesert, like barstow, california. a friend

of mine, orlan sanchez, he lives out in barstow,and it is flat desert for as far as you can see and he’s got his wind turbine up about20 feet and that thing really cranks some power, but he built and axial flux himself,and that’s a different type of wind turbine, but he’s up about 20 feet and people seethat wind turbine at 20 feet and they think i can have mine about 20 feet too. that’snot so. he’s out in the middle of the desert. there’s no obstructions, he has nice cleanair, and that wind turbine works really well for him. i mean up at 20 feet, he doesn’treally need to go any higher. [wayne meador] where i live, i’ll jump inhere, where i live in east central alabama, we’ve got trees all over the place. i don’tlive on a lake, so i don’t have wind coming

off the surface of the water, and i don’tlive on the backside or front side of a hill so my wind turbine is gonna have to at leastbe 50 feet up just to get above the tree line. [jeff harmon] yeah, i know what it looks likein alabama. i used to live there. so yeah, if you’ve got trees like that, you shouldget above the tree line. i mean the higher you go the cleaner the air is and the morepower there is in the wind. say, if you get up there 100 feet there’s a lot of powerthere in the wind and it’s very clean air. very straight line wind. when you drop downto 30 feet you get a lot of turbulent wind and there’s a lot less power in the windat 30 feet that there is at 100 feet. and the turbulence i’m talking about is comingover trees, buildings, fences, bushes, that

sort of stuff, it causes the wind to startrolling and get very turbulent. so even though you’ve got 15 mile an hour wind down atsay 30 feet, and you’ve got 15 mile per hour wind at 100 feet, that wind turbine isgonna receive a lot more power at 100 feet than it is at 30 feet. it’s the straightline wind up the higher you go. so you want to get up over the tree tops if you can. it’snot that hard to build a wind turbine tower that doesn’t have to be that expensive.[wayne meador] i want to get to that, but i know we have to take a commercial break.andy’s waiting to do that, and then we’ll jump back into the discussion jeff.[jeff harmon] oh, yeah, okay, sure. [andy brine] thank you all for tuning in.we’re gonna take a quick break. you’re

watching sustainability in the modern worldwith aworld4changetv. just pulled up a few comments here as well. well, we haven’tgot a huge amount of comments, but i would say welcome kirstin hancock, thanks for joiningtoday, coach g moore and rayne dowell and all of you who are watching as well. if youdo have any comments, please feel free to join in the discussion and ask any questionsyou may have so we can continue this discussion and we can [inaudible] create a sustainablemodern world in regards to wind energy. so, i have a question for you now and i was justinterested in looking at last week and maybe this week and maybe asking you the questionof how efficient is wind energy in comparison to solar today?[jeff harmon] how efficient? well that’s

kind of a hard question to answer. you’regonna have cloudy days, you’re gonna have overcast days and you’re not gonna get muchout of solar and you’re gonna have days with a lot of wind and with no wind and it’sgonna be the same thing with wind. i guess the way to answer it is, sun will shine 8hours a day but the wind can blow 24 hours, and somebody asked me should i have a windturbine or solar? i always give the same answer, you should have both. they complement eachother. when the sun goes down, the wind turbine can be charging your batteries all night long,where the sun is finished, at sundown it’s done. so the wind turbines are pretty efficientnow. i mean they’re a lot better and a lot cheaper than what they used to be.[andy brine] okay,

[jeff harmon] does that answer your questionsort of? [andy brine] no definitely it does make completesense, i mean it’s like you say, like the sun can only shine a certain amount of hoursa day and the wind can blow all the time like you said. in terms of materials when it comesto wind turbines, what materials would you say would be the best materials to use?[jeff harmon] well, wind turbines used to have all wood blades. wood blades used tolast about 5 years, where they were shot, and now you’ve got so many different typesof composites, i mean there’s tons of different composites that last virtually forever, likethis one. i mean, you can’t really even break this, and it’s got like a 25 yearuv protectant on it. there’s no wood blade

gonna last that long. so wind turbines havecome a long way since the old days and i don’t know, wood blades are better, or the compositeblades are better than wood blades. they’re lighter, they’re cheaper to make and theylast longer, and they’ll take an impact without harming them, i mean if they’remade right. [andy brine] i saw you had a few wind turbinesthere earlier, i saw blades. what are the different blades you’ve got there today,would you say? [jeff harmon] yeah, well these blades, wellthis is the first blade that i had made, actually it’s about the third, and this goes on allthe small micro wind turbines and the bigger the turbine it gets, the bigger the bladeyou have to have and this is the next size

blade that we’re coming out with. it’llbe out the end of december. anyway, this is made for a lot of torque. it’s slower butit has more torque because it’s got a wider surface, and this blade has a narrower surface,it has more speed but it doesn’t have as much torque.so what does torque mean, actually when a wind turbine motor is putting out a lot ofamps, it starts to drag, so you need a larger blade to keep pushing those amps down theline. i don’t know, does that make any sense? [andy brine] yeah it does make some sense;maybe we can dive into that a bit more in a while. i was also interested in findingout about renewable material. can we make wind turbines or wind blades out of renewablematerials let’s say? is it feasible for

us to do so?[jeff harmon] yeah you could, you just have to be careful with wind turbine blades. imean if you start using recycled products, like these are all virgin materials, you startusing recycled products you could run into a real problem with them exploding. i meanit’s pretty dangerous to have a blade that will break off. that’s like a flying piece,a sword through the air, and you don’t want that to happen. as far as recycled materials,i don’t know of anybody that’s actually making the blade with recycled materials thatactually holds up. there are people that are using recycled materials and those bladesend up shattering all the time. they’re cheap but they shatter, they come apart. idon’t know i wouldn’t use recycled materials

because nobodies told me that i can actuallydo that yet and have a safe wind turbine blade, but i would imagine you can.[wayne meador] alright, yeah i think that’s a good place to jump in and bring in a coupleof comments. kirstin hancock, she says “maybe i should design a bluetooth wind turbine?”the story behind that is her and their company, they design bluetooth thermometers, designand sell the, that’s a good comment and i’ve used their thermometers. i like them.clayton rector also says, “you guys are explaining this very well! wayne, i wonderif it is possible to attach the base of your wind turbine tower to a tall tree to get itabove the tree line.” is that something that you would recommend jeff?[jeff harmon] yeah there’s guys that’ve

done that. i mean there are already peoplethat’s done that. they actually went to the top of a tree, they popped it out andattached a tower pole to the top of the tree. i mean you can do it, but the tree, once itstarts swaying in the wind you’re gonna lose a lot of power. what you want is a turbinetower that’s rigid and when that wind turbine turns into the wind, you don’t want thatturbine flexing back and forth because every time it does the blades will slow down, andthen they’ll speed up. so yeah you can do it but it’s not a good idea. i mean youwill lose power, that’s for sure with the tree whipping around all over the place.[wayne meador] yeah, i hear ya. so just another thing to bring up, “ so more amps equalsmore torque equals larger blades or vice versa”

is that kinda how we look at it?[jeff harmon] yes, the more amps that a wind turbine is putting out, the more torque youneed to keep that motor running. so yeah, larger blades, wider, longer.[wayne meador] okay, we’re getting close to the end of the show andy. i’ll let youtake it over here, but i just want to make sure we mention that we will be providinga link to add in the comments below in the green room if any of the audience have anyquestions after the 30 minute mark, after the show’s closed out, then you can jumpin and you can ask questions directly to jeff and in person. so, andy take it away. let’sclose it out when you’re ready. [andy brine] okay, i was just gonna ask onemore question maybe. my final question would

be, in terms of a sustainable future in termsof energy, do you think that wind is a viable solution for like commercially as well asus as homeowners as well? [jeff harmon] what was the question andy?i didn’t catch all of that. [andy brine] in terms of sustainability andenergy, do you think wind energy is a big part of the sustainable energy solution inregards to commercially and also homeowners as well?[jeff harmon] yeah, it’s a big part of it. i mean you couldn’t have just strictly solarpanels. i mean there’s a lot of areas in the country and the world that they don’thave good sun all the time. so like guys in canada complain all the time, i mean they’vegot a lot of cloudy days and they use a lot

of wind up there. so solar panels would notbe the answer for those people. they use wind and solar, so it’s like that around theworld. you can’t say solar panels are gonna cure everything cause they don’t. you needboth. [andy brine] definitely, and one final questionthen, if you’re in the ideal location, the ideal spot, would you have solar and windon your home? [jeff harmon] would i have solar or wind?[andy brine] would you have both on the property? [jeff harmon] i’d have both. most peoplethat are off grid have had solar for years, finally have installed a wind turbine, andthey’ve installed one or two wind turbines, and they said it’s just almost impossibleto live solely on solar panels, so they’re

throwing in some wind turbines with theirsolar. so solar is really excellent, it’s great, it can give you a lot of power andthere’s less maintenance to solar panels, of course, than there is wind turbine. it’seasier to put up a solar panel than it is to put up a wind turbine, but they just complementeach other. as far as having just wind or just solar in the world? one or the otheris not a good idea. it wouldn’t work. you have to have both.[andy brine] excellent. well thank you again for coming on the show jeff. it’s been areal pleasure to have you on and sharing your knowledge of sustainable energy as well aswind energy and solar energy. next week we will have a discussion about hydro energy,so those of you who want to tune in next week,

we’re gonna have an amazing discussion abouthydro energy and how that applies to you [inaudible] so that will be live at 1pm et and 6pm gmt.so we will close the show out there and we do look forward to seeing you all next week.what i will ask is those of you who want to continue the discussion and ask jeff somemore questions about wind energy today, feel free to join the green room and we’ll besure to continue the discussion and answer those questions that you have. thanks forwatching today. [wayne meador] alright, so it’s post show.we’re gonna continue to broadcast live jeff, but again like last week, it’s our opportunityto really just take our gloves off and relax a little bit. i’ve got a question for you.i just got a camper last week and one of my

youtube subscribers has already recommendedputting a turbine on my camper, and i don’t even know how that’s gonna work, unlessi’m living out in the middle of nowhere with a camper and it certainly is in alabama.so, do you guys do that? is it a common thing? [jeff harmon] yeah there’s people that doit, but they’ll put a hinge like say a travel trailer, at the back they’ll put a hingeon the bumper to like a 10 foot pole. [feedback][wayne meador] there we go. go ahead jeff. [jeff harmon] yeah well, it works. i don’tknow if would do it if i was you, wayne, but there’s people that do it and they work.[wayne meador] yeah. well i don’t think the turbine that i have is the right turbinefor it anyway, if i was to choose to go that

route, but it’s a question i had in my headbecause it’s something that i think a lot of people have thought of. in some of ourpast episodes a couple of months ago we also [feedback][wayne meador] we’re getting a lot of feedback from kirstin. i don’t know why we’re gettingfeedback from you kirstin, but we’re trying to handle it for you. but yeah, i had a coupleof episodes back a couple of months ago, somebody had mentioned putting up solar or wind assistto charge car batteries going down the road, and i think man, you know, how big can wego? how big can we dream with wind energy? [jeff harmon] well, actually, if you do that,it’ll actually cost you more money in gasoline, whatcha gonna get out of it?[wayne meador] yeah, because of the drag,

right?[jeff harmon] yes because of the drag, so yeah you can do it and it’ll work but it’sgonna cost you some money to do it. [wayne meador] yeah, i thought so. we havea couple of people that have jumped into the green room, and i’m just interested to hearif anybody has specific questions. clayton, i know you’re in, and kirstin has had someproblems with her audio, but if clayton wants to join and ask any specific questions, that’sfine. you can unmute yourself and you can do that clayton.jeff, i’m curious, what are some of the most common questions you get as it appliesto wind? [jeff harmon] what are the most common questionsi get?

[wayne meador] uhuh, and how would you answerthem? [jeff harmon] well, i suppose, can they usea wind turbine, and that’s the most common question, i guess, and i say yeah, you candepending on where you are. a lot of cities won’t allow a wind turbine. there’s somany codes, building regulations and such, that it’s almost not even worth it, butyeah, if you’ve got an open area where you can build a tower, want to get above the treesor whatever, yeah you can have a wind turbine. here’s another common question, do windturbines kill birds? i say no, that’s a myth.[wayne meador] well you know it’s funny, we went up to pennsylvania, up to seven springsarea a month ago, and there was these massive

wind farms across the peaks of a lot of thehills out there in pennsylvania. [jeff harmon] yeah.[wayne meador] we sat there, becky and i, my girlfriend, we sat there for a good 15minutes driving around looking at wind turbines, and there wasn’t a bird close to the windturbines, and when there was a flock of birds that came by or close to them they didn’tgo anywhere close to them. the blades are moving so slow anyway, the commercial ones,that there’s just no bird kills. i don’t see how that’s even an argument. i don’tknow, what’s your perspective? [jeff harmon] well, that’s a big complaintwhen a person goes into the city council meeting to ask if it’s ok if they can have a windturbine. somebody will usually jump up in

the audience and say they kill birds, andthe city council will say sorry you can’t have a wind turbine, it kills birds. well,it’s just a myth and none of these guys can show birds piling up at the bottom ofwind turbines anywhere. they just keep making it up. i’ve never had any birds killed inall the wind turbines that i’ve got up at my place ever, so it’s just a myth.[wayne meador] okay. [jeff harmon] but, anyway with micro windturbines, here’s another part of that answer, a guy explained it to me one time and i believeit’s probably true, when they’re flying at 100 feet or below, birds are looking forpower lines, trees, poles, houses, you name it. i mean, they’re not that stupid. they’relooking for a wind turbine, they’re not

gonna fly right into a wind turbine any morethan they’re just gonna fly into the side of your house.[wayne meador] yeah, i agree. i concur. [jeff harmon] but that’s the biggest dumbestone i get asked all the time. [wayne meador] okay. i know we didn’t, inthe first episode while we were live, we didn’t get a chance to talk about cost, but if youwere to break it down in cost and let’s say we have a really good sunny location anda very good windy location, can we break it down in cost per kilowatt hour or the amountof power i can produce per dollar that i spend on a system? is there a way to do that?[jeff harmon] not really. well, i suppose there is but i don’t have the answer foryou on that. the salesmen do that all day

long and i have no clue about that.[wayne meador] got ya. [jeff harmon] solar’s not exactly cheaperthan wind. wind can be pretty cheap. is solar cheaper or do you get more out of solar thanyou will wind? well it all depends on the weather and your location. the guys that areselling strictly solar panels say oh yeah it’s a lot cheaper to go with solar. you’regonna get more out of it, you’re gonna get more bang for your buck than you will wind.well, they’re selling solar panels so the guys that are selling wind, they say the samething. you have to be able to predict the weather.[wayne meador] yeah well, you know it just sounds like the best solution is power sourcefrom multiple [inaudible] and last night when

jared stanley and i were talking about permacultureand how permaculture is weaving a web around you with multiple inputs and i think the samething applies here. solar and wind inputs and next week we’re gonna be talking aboutmicro hydro. [jeff harmon] that’s right, hydro’s good.[wayne meador] so, do you guys sell hydro? i’m curious.[jeff harmon] no, i don’t sell hydro. i never mess with it much. just kind of likea whole different animal, but we probably will be selling hydro one of these days.[wayne meador] yeah [jeff harmon] but it’s a good deal. hydrois really big in a lot of parts of the us. hydro’s real big. i like hydro. i mean thatcould be a nonstop source of power if you’ve

got the water, and there’s guys that do.i mean they’ve got water running 24 hours a day 7 days a week year round and it’salways pumping. yeah, we get a lot of orders for charge controllers and stuff for hydroguys. it’s great but can you just throw yourself a water wheel in a water way? no.the state, now i don’t know every state, but i know that a lot of states, you can’tjust drop something into the water and make power. the state comes along and sees that,and i can’t remember what it’s called, but those water ways are owned by the stateor the government. you can’t just throw a hydro power unit out into a crick or a riverand make power. that’s not gonna happen. [wayne meador] well i think they are fairlytechnologically advanced, i mean some of the

systems of today, are they not?[jeff harmon] yeah the pelton wheels that they use are awesome. i mean they really areand i don’t really get into that too much but they can put out an enormous amount ofpower. yeah the geyser wheel came a long way. i can’t talk about it too much, becausei’m not real big on hydro, but i know they work.[wayne meador] let’s get back to the topic of wind then. i know kirstin’s on the lineand i want to give anybody an opportunity to talk, so feel free to pipe in. andy, feelfree to jump in, ask questions. [kirstin hancock] hi, i’m really interestedin wind energy. it’s something that we haven’t really looked into yet, but i think in thefuture we will perhaps have a wind meter rather

than a turbine so that people could measurehow much wind they are having, but that’s a little bit along the track. i’m reallyinterested in using natural resources that we have around us to harvest the energy. ifigured it’s very interesting your thoughts about hydro energy, because i grew up in newzealand and most of the electricity that’s produced in new zealand is from hydro dams.[jeff harmon] oh yeah. [kirstin hancock]it’s huge. like on oneof the rivers, it’s 3 dams on one river. so i guess in the us it’s a little bit different.i don’t know if they harvest electricity in that way as much as what they do in newzealand. [jeff harmon] yeah we’ve got a lot of damsin the us that are hydro power. same thing.

[wayne meador] so i’m curious kirstin thatyou were talking about a bluetooth wind meter. is that something that you guys have in theworks? [kirstin hancock] well, we actually have.we’re in discussions with a large us company that does weather forecasting, so we’rejust discussing with them how we can form a relationship so that people can get accurateweather forecasts by using our products and that will be from tempo because tempo canrecord temperatures, humidity, barometric pressure, and then we’re just about to releasea wifi hub so that the data can sent anywhere into the cloud, and that becomes very interestingfor people in that they could have a weather forecast sent directly to them from theirlocation. you can get really accurate forecasts.

i know here in london, our nearest weatherstation that we get forecasts from is miles away, and so whenever we get it, we neveractually get a localized weather forecast, but we’ve got a weather station in the latestages of design. it’s just really fascinating, but i think in the future we will design somethingthat will be able to measure wind. [wayne meador] yeah, that’s neat. i meani’m sure you might not be able to talk about everything you have going on right now, andthe same with jeff on some of your new products, but we’re just excited to help bring brandslike missouri wind and solar and kirstin blue maestro like you guys to the surface and tothe forefront because we know there’s consumers out there that really know there’s a need.they know they need to make changes, but don’t

necessarily have answers and a method to goabout making those changes, so hopefully we can do that with our shows.[kirstin hancock]yeah [andy brine] i had something that i wantedto bring up, cause i [inaudible]and there’s a wind farm, i think it’s either in scotlandor it’s just on the coast near scotland, and apparently it produced enough energy lastyear to power the whole of the uk, and i was quite astonished to actually see that. i cansee the weather forecasts in the uk, sorry in scotland and always fantastic. probablythey’ve got a lot of wind and a lot of rain, so they’re probably producing a lot of energyin that respect. but i thought that was really interesting, and i thought i’d bring thatup as well.

[kirstin hancock] but it’s like what yousay, it’s all about location. you have to have wind turbines harvesting wind in theright locations. you can’t just have them anywhere. i mean it would be useless in myback yard, because i’m just completely surrounded by trees.[wayne meador] yeah, that’s right, and i think that goes to the question that claytonbrought up. he jumped in and jumped out, but he typed in a question. “do wind turbinespay for themselves? and if so, what period of time?” and i think they should or it’snot a sustainable product to buy, and if you’re not living in that environment then there’sno reason to buy one. [jeff harmon] wind turbines now and solarpanels, at the price that are, usually pay

for themselves in 3-5 years.[wayne meador] right and your sales guys will help somebody design a diy turbine systemif it helps somebody determine whether or not they need one in the first place or itwould be prudent to spend money on, right? [jeff harmon] yeah they’ll help them out.they’ll let you know if you’re in a location whether you can have a wind turbine or not.they don’t really want you to buy one if you can’t really get out of wind turbine,they won’t sell one to you. [wayne meador] okay.[kirstin hancock] the british government were subsidizing people to have solar panels putinto their homes to harvest energy, which was a really very good concept and a lot ofpeople took it up.

[jeff harmon] oh yeah. andy brought up a goodtopic. i remember something, i’ve seen this on the news about australia, that australiansproduce so much power from solar energy, and i think this was all over the news, that theyactually shut down the power companies for an entire day. they produced so much electricityfrom solar energy. [wayne meador] imagine what that would looklike here. [jeff harmon] yes exactly, and i was talkingto allen and he said yeah that’s true, he lives in australia, he said they shut it downfor something like the entire day at this point and he was telling me that every otherhouse has solar panels on their roof and they had solar hot water heating units on the roadsin australia. and i said, well at this point

right now, to be able to shut down the utilitycompanies, homeowners, to be able to do that i think it would be pretty cool.[andy brine] everybody’s been asking, is it feasible to have solar panels on everyhome. is it feasible to have wind turbines either commercially or on your home to poweryour home and it just shows with the [inaudible] and the one from australia that it sure isfeasible, and it’s already there in place in some respects, just needs to get the ballrolling in terms of pushing it out to people, and i think in terms of giving it more demandfor us. [jeff harmon] well, they’re doing it inaustralia. i mean those guys are a good example. it could be done here in the us. it shouldhave already been done here in the us.

[wayne meador] yeah. i hear ya. i think thisis a good place to stop. we’ve extended our show 15 minutes with q and a. i know yourtime’s valuable jeff, and so is ours. i do want to say, before i jump off and beforei turn it over to you to close out andy, that i want the audience to remember that tomorrowis my new show question everything. it’ll be the third episode but it’s every thirdweek on thursdays at 2pm central, 3 eastern. tomorrow i’m gonna be talking about bitcoin with benjamin wright. he’s an attorney from out west here in the states and he’san expert as it applies to bit coin and some of the legal challenges that we face withit, so i’m looking forward to that. andy, go ahead and close out when you’reready.

[andy brine] i’ll just close out by sayingthanks again jeff for continuing the discussion about sustainable energy today. more so, obviouslyabout wind energy. if you want to find out more about jeff and missouri wind and solar,please look in the description on the google+ event page, youtube description or you caneven look on the facebook page. you can find out more information there. if you want tofind out more information about our show you can visit aworld4change.com and also i thinkkirstin has some fantastic products that we brought up today, so if you want to find outa bit more about blue maestro as well, you can get in contact with kirstin and she’llbe sure to answer any questions you may have or will help you out in that area. if you’dlike to tune in next week we will be talking

about hydro energy and we will keep the guesta secret just for the moment, but we will let you know as soon as possible so you cantune in next week. same time next week 1pm et and 6pm gmt, and with that, i’m gonnasay bye for now.