[music] youãre listening to the business consultingbuzz podcast at www.consulting-business.com. michael: welcome everyone to the businessconsulting buzz consulting interviews. today we have with us aarni heiskanen, a managementconsultant and internet entrepreneur that works with government and top companies ineurope. aarni, every time we talk i hear more excitingnews about your business. so tell us more about your specialization and what kind ofwork youãre involved in most recently. aarni: okay. thank you mike, itãs great tobe here. as you told, iãm a management consultant and i started as an architect before becominga consultant and thatãs why iãm also involved
nowadays with real estate and constructionindustry, but also i have clients from the media, from retail, and industry and so on.so iãm doing management consulting. my focus is on strategies and innovation. michael: okay. aarni: i also am a partner at thinking business,which is a software company, and in there our focus is on project portfolio managementand the management of strategic assets like information systems. and we actually havesoftware for that, and we have over 5,000 users now in 40 countries for that software. michael: can you give us an example of thekinds of, types of clients that youãre working
with both on the consulting side as well asthe companies that are using thinking portfolio? [00:02:06] aarni: well, the companies using thinkingportfolio are mainly large organizations. the criteria normally is that they have tohave around, letãs say, 200 projects or more, ongoing development projects, before theyare actually getting benefits from our software. so those are large companies. we also havesome public sector companies or organizations like the tax authority in finland and finavia(ph), which takes care of all the airports in finland, 25 airports, and so on. and, ofcourse, many of our clients are international companies so they have, perhaps, the headquartersin one country but they also have business
units all over the world.so that means that i often do my consulting in english, which is my second or third languageactually. michael: right, because youãre based in finlandbut i know that you travel a fair bit across europe to different countries, both on a consultingside as well as meeting with people to talk about thinking portfolio and implementingthat into their businesses. [ 00:03:37] aarni: yes. and right now we have partnerconsultants in sweden, in the netherlands, and in france. so we have constant connectionswith these consultants. michael: alright, good. so aarni, letãs goback a little bit. iãd like for you to share a little bit and hear your story with everyonelistening about how you got started in this
business. you touched on, for a second there,that you were involved in architecture and construction. so take us back to how you gotstarted in the business of consulting, and how you became a consultant. [00:04:26] aarni: yes. actually, i was an architect andi did real architect work for over ten years. but also i was constantly interested and involvedin it, and it was the days when architects started using cad systems, and thatãs whyi became more like an r&d manager in the largest architectural company in finland.then we had a really bad economic situation in the early 1990s and i started moving towardsreal estate and facilities management. and that, in a way, involved me more in businessthan in design. so thatãs why i got interested
in business issues and the problems that thesecompanies had. and then we had the internet boom in the late 90s. michael: right. aarni: i partnered up with an internet startupand was involved in developing internet software for large companies in retail and in manufacturing.also, from that point of view, i got more involved in communicating with business peoplemore than just engineers or designers. and in 2000, when the internet bubble burst,i actually found myself doing more and more management consulting and thatãs how i startedin management consulting. michael: so you almost got, it sounds like,thrown into being a consultant. i mean, you
were at a job, you went to then work witha startup. tough economic times, the internet boom came and obviously then it busted. sohow did you actually find yourself in a position to start consulting, to start working withcompanies and to help them to solve their problems? i mean, were you giving a lot ofthought to becoming a consultant beforehand or was it something that you just kind ofwoke up one day and said, ã¬hey, i guess i can help some people and charge them somemoney for this?ã® [00:07:03] aarni: yeah. maybe thatãs what happened.i never realized or imagined that i would become a management consultant. i didnãteven know, when i started my career in architecture, that these kind of people existed. (chuckles)but i guess that my background was such that
it actually helped a lot in figuring out howcompanies work and analyzing their operations and their strategies.i donãt know, it happened quite naturally. i was moving from the operational level tomore strategic level, and that happened gradually. and somehow my clients, i guess they had goodexperiences with me and they actually recommended me to other clients, and so it started. michael: right. thatãs interesting becausewe received some questions for you in this interview, and one of them was asking; whatkind of qualifications and experience do you need to become a management consultant? andi guess just looking at... i know that youãve received other certifications as you wentalong, but when you got started you didnãt
have any and youãve now obviously gone onto develop a very, very successful career. but back then when you got started, wouldyour answer to that question of: what kind of certifications do you need to get started?i guess youãve proven that you donãt really need anything. [00:08:47] aarni: yeah. itãs a good question, becausei guess even nowadays most management consultants come from other industries. they are not managementconsultants originally. so they have some background and i guess that one good thingis to have some perhaps deeper knowledge in a certain industry or industries. for example,for me it was the real estate and construction. and i also got very involved in it development,so i was able to help it companies and it
departments of larger companies because iknew about... i was not so involved in hands-on technology, but i knew how these it assetswere managed. so thatãs one thing that you might... if you have any industry backgrounditãs a good start. aarni: another thing is that if you have knowledgeof certain area, for example in customer relationships or in marketing or in manufacturing, you canuse that knowledge in many industries. so that is what happened to me, i guess, becausei also had clients from printing industry and media and software development and soon. so i was moving away from my original industry and my original education. michael: right. okay. first of all i shouldsay thank you to sachen (ph) for that question.
that was a good question.so, aarni, let me dig into this a little bit deeper because are you saying that when yougot started you focused on working with clients where you already had some experience, whereyou knew the industry? right? in construction, architecture, it. and then from there as youdeveloped your skills and experience being a consultant, then you started to take onwork from clients in other industries? [00:11:02] aarni: yes, thatãs right. and i guess thati have not really specialized very deeply in one issue or one area. so i have been morelike doing... iãve been very good, i guess, in interviewing people, getting information,analyzing it, and drawing conclusions. and my clients have thanked me for being verysystematic and very analytical. so thatãs
one thing that is, one feature that i guesshas helped me a lot, if you have certain skills and you can develop them further, regardlessof the industry. michael: okay. now if we kind of move alongthis journey that you were going on. so you start to offer consulting services. how didyou actually get your first clients? [00:12:05] aarni: i had two ways of getting clients.of course the first one was that i already, since i had been in one industry for years,i already had connections there and i knew some people who were very open to new ideasand wanted to develop their companies. and they actually wanted to have somebody fromoutside, so to speak. when i was no longer an employee of a consultancy in architecturei was, in a way, an outsider. (chuckle) so
i could actually help contractors and engineeringcompanies and so on. so that was one way of getting clients, using my old existing connectionsand getting referrals from there. the other way was that in late 1990s i partneredup with an internet startup. they were making software and they already had good connectionsthrough their people, so i was able to get totally new clients from totally new industriesthrough this partnership. michael: okay. so, aarni, now itãs time fortodayãs action bite and i need to cue some fancy music which i donãt have ready fortodayãs interview. but i need it to be the old drum roll or something.so todayãs action bite, letãs dig into this. youãre going to share a little bit aboutyour approach of partnering with other companies,
setting up maybe you can call them a strategicalliance or strategic relationships. can you share your process or the approach that youwould recommend people should use to do this so that it works for them? [00:14:06] aarni: yes. when i started as a consultant,left my original company, i started reading the newspapers and i saw that there were companieslooking for, trying to hire people for certain function or certain tasks. then i just happenedto see one company and i thought that perhaps they are trying to hire a person, but maybeif i would suggest to them that instead of hiring somebody why not use a consultant?(chuckle) and that was one technique that, okay they got interested and they wanted tomeet with me and we discussed and then we
started the relationship, business relationship,pretty soon. so it was one way of first studying what was going around and what kind of knowledgeand information people are looking for, and what kind of skills they are looking for.and then you can possibly approach them. thatãs still a valid technique, and nowadays whenyou have the internet you can very easily study companies and see where they are going,and if they have that knowledge or skill already or if they are looking for it. so thatãshow i got my first very good partnership. aarni: and from there on, when i was ableto show that by partnering with me the other company was getting benefits that they couldalso pass on to their clients. so it was a win-win-win situation.
michael: right. aarni, let me just stop youthere for a second so we can maybe break this down into steps for people listening.so what would be step one? what would be the first thing that people need to do if theywant to try and set up some sort of a partnership, a strategic partnership, to help them to landclients and grow their business? what would be the first thing? would it be connectedto identifying, or what would you suggest is the first step people need to take? [00:16:28] aarni: well, of course, first of all you haveto know what you have to offer. (chuckle) so what you are good at, and possibly is theresomething new that you can offer, something new to the partner? and then be very open-mindedabout who to contact, because it might be,
letãs say, from a medical industry or itmight be a consultant, another consultant, or it might be an it company. there are many,many alternatives. so maybe you just start scanning and questioning,and if you already have some connections or contacts i recommend that you use them, ofcourse, michael: so how do you actually go about findingthe types of companies? letãs say someoneãs listening to this, or we can take an examplehere. simriti (ph) ã± iãm not sure if iãm pronouncing your name right ã± simriti isin the field of audit data analytics consulting. so once theyãve figured, okay, this is whattheyãre offering to the marketplace, these are the problems that they help to solve,how would you then suggest that they go about
finding companies to partner with? [00:17:46] aarni: well, of course, itãs always easierif somebody always already knows you or knows your friends, so to speak. (chuckle) so iwould first try to find some other companies or persons who are already, who know the market,for example. and then if thatãs not possible, then i would go to the internet and go, forexample, those jobs announcements, for example, and see what kind of... michael: right. a job site or something, youmean? aarni: yeah, yeah. if companies are interestedin something that relate to you somehow, then it might be a signal that they are havinga need for that. so thatãs one thing. and,
of course, then there are these special events,for example, and there are many associations, for example. if you can offer some associationin their meeting... for example i have used this, that associations often like to havesome presentations or program that they can present to their members. and if you are ableto get a chance to present yourself and what you do and what kind of benefits you mighthave to offer, thatãs one, that would be a very good way to contact new people. [00:19:24] michael: okay. so really what youãre talkingabout here, i mean the whole goal of this is... so just to quickly go back and reviewthe steps, so one is figuring out really what it is that youãre offering and what kindof problems that you solve. then trying to
get in front of the potential people thathave that need or that have that problem that you can help to solve. and if you donãt havean established network that you can connect with directly, you might look at something,try something like linkedin to see if maybe someone that you know knows somebody who canintroduce you, or look at job sites to see if companies are hiring for someone with yourspecific skill sets. and then even as a consultant you could approach them, and even if theyãrelooking for a full-time person or a contract worker you might just be able to have a conversationwith them to offer your services. and if that fails, another option youãresuggesting is to look at networking events or associations or organizations where youmight be able to do a talk or just to offer
your services, with the whole goal of reallyleveraging the marketing dollars and the brand that other companies have so that you canoffer your services through them more, or help them. [00:20:37] aarni: yeah, because many times these companiesalready they have established connections to hundreds of clients or customers. aarni: and so you donãt have to market tothose hundred of clients if you have a good partner. michael: definitely, yeah. and iãve actuallyjust seen that at work. i was coaching a new consultant the other day whoãs actually veryexperienced in the field of marketing, has
worked as a director of marketing at severalorganizations in north america, but is fairly new to consulting. and he has set up an arrangementwith a printing establishment to offer his services to all of their clients that comein. so thatãs just a great way to leverage their experience and network. [00:21:29] aarni: yeah. and you might also have an ideaof what kind of a new offering you are able to offer together with your partner. so youcan create something completely new, some competitive edge. (chuckle) michael: right, exactly. those are great tips.alright. so aarni, i know time-wise weãre kind of... i want to keep this moving here,but thereãs still a few big questions here
that i want to go over. one of them is, againi want you to kind of think back a little bit, and what would be the most importantdecision or action you took back in the day that, when you think about it now, that wasreally critical to taking your business to the level of success that youãre enjoyingthese days? is there one single thing or a couple of things you did that, looking back,was just really critical to your success? [00:22:25] aarni: well, many consultants try to thinkthat they are great as individuals, but quite early i discovered that it was good to havepartners, consulting partners. and the thinking business company that created thinking portfolioactually started out as a consultancy. we
had actually six consultants. we joined forces.we were all management consultants and the other guys were focusing more on it consulting.so it was, when we just got together we really understood that we could help each other and,for example, when there was a client who needed more, letãs say, more brainpower or moremuscle power than just one consultant it was very easy when you already had these guys.so it was maybe that you donãt think that you can be alone. to accept that you can actuallyhave other people work with you and that was one of the reasons why i guess that iãm successful. michael: so for you partnering has been areally big factor in your success. which is interesting because a lot of consultants wouldhear what you just said, partnering with six
other consultants, and would see it as potentialcompetition. you know, why get so close with the people that might be competing? but itsounds like you were able to find that even if there were some similarities or crossoverbetween what you guys were doing, that there was enough differences that you were stillall able to benefit from cooperating. [00:24:30] aarni: yeah, that was definitely so. and itdoesnãt matter even if you have competing competencies, it doesnãt really matter becausei donãt think that this is a zero sum game. so actually, you can offer more and many largeclients require that you have more people involved just because their projects are abit larger than they are, perhaps, in small companies.
michael: okay. so aarni another question here,and this one i was trying to get to it before from simriti. and the question is: what doesit take to convert your potential clients to a real one? everything seems to go okayuntil the client has to secure a budget or convince the board that seeking help froma professional might be the best thing. so i donãt get a simple yes or no. is patiencethe key? whatãs your take? so what would you say to simriti? [00:25:38] aarni: i would say that, well if youãre justwaiting for the client to call back they never will. (chuckle) so i would suggest that youãdbe very active. and if you already have one person or a team of persons who are alreadycommitted, i would suggest that you help them
as much as possible to sell inside their company,or to sell and market your offering. because if they... and if they feel that they getpersonal benefit from using you, thatãs one very important factor because people liketo be successful and look successful. and if you can somehow guarantee that, that theywill becomes successful because of using you thatãs a very good point.and also, try to minimize the risk so that... for example, iãve often used, letãs saynot free but for a very reasonable price, some initial offering, some small task thati can show that i can do this. then they get acquainted with me, they know who i am, andwhen they already committed in one small thing itãs easier to sell bigger projects afterthat.
michael: yeah. i think thatãs a very importantpoint, aarni, that you just shared there, is the whole idea of lowering the entry orthe barrier to entry, and making the whole... because we all know that when it comes downto it, all the business ã± you know, the business that weãre in is all about relationships.and so, whatãs the easiest way to build those relationships is first of all to prove tosomeone that you can do what you say youãre going to do. lower the risk for them and,as you just shared right now, a great way to do that is, instead of trying to pitcha very large project or something thatãs going to cost them a lot of money or takea lot of time, start off with the little, with something smaller but still somethingthat you can show a result so that they can
start to feel comfortable working with you.and then once youãve done that itãll be much easier to sell a larger project afterthat. [00:28:07] aarni: yeah. yeah, i agree. michael: great. alright aarni. well i thinktime-wise weãre getting there, so my last question we want to be doing... iãd liketo interview many more people like yourself that have achieved success as consultantsand are doing interesting things that our readers can learn from. so who else wouldyou suggest that i should interview? [00:28:32] aarni: well, i guess you already probablyhave interviewed, but ian brodie. (chuckle) michael: yeah, okay. ianãs a good guy andheãs on my list for sure, but okay. any other
names? anyone else? aarni: well i can... maybe i would have toconsider. michael: you can think about that. aarni: yeah. i must think about that, butian was the one that i already had on my list. michael: for sure. okay, then iãm in touchwith ian and iãll definitely be getting, trying to persuade him to do this, which iãmsure heãs a great guy so iãm sure thatãll work out.well aarni, thank you taking the time to do this interview. i really do appreciate it.and let me, before we wind off here, if people want to get in touch with you, if they havequestions, if they just want to find out more
about what youãre up to and your businesses,whatãs the best way for them to reach you or to connect with you? [00:29:41] aarni: well, my website is aepartners.fi. but nowadays itãs in finnish.so there is also a link to my international site which you can find there and, of course,email is maybe the easiest way, especially if youãre not in the same time zone. michael: okay. so people can go to aepartners.fi. aarni: yeah. aarni: thatãs maybe the easiest way. michael: alright, great. well aarni, thanksfor doing this interview. i really do appreciate
that. aarni: well, it was a pleasure. for more interviews, articles and resourceson consulting visit business consulting buzz at www.consulting-business.com.
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